INTERVIEW WITH BOB STASCH - A CHICAGO PD VETERAN OF 14 GUNFIGHTS
The following excerpts are from a ProArms podcast interview with Bob Stasch of the Chicago PD. Mr. Stasch has reviewed this material and approves of it as written.
Bob Stash has been with the Chicago PD since 1981, and he has been in 14 gunfights.
When he began with the Chicago PD, qualifications were at 7, 15, and 25 yards, and mostly bullseye. A two handed Isosceles or Weaver stance was used. And there was no time pressure or combat shooting.
He is a firm believer in carrying a back up. But he has had to draw one only a couple of times, and he has not used one in a shootout.
In his first shooting, he and his partner each hit a perp multiple times. His initial shot was at about 12 feet, and his last two were at about 6 feet. His last shot blew out the perp's knee which finally brought him down. The perp later died from the multiple wounds. After that shooting, Bob and his partner trained to make head shots to better assure a quicker stop.
He practices shooting at combat distances [out to 20 - 25 feet], and tries to shoot exclusively with one hand to learn to control the weapon.
In a gunfight, your off hand will be occupied doing something like pushing, opening a door, using the radio, etc..
He also said that standard range shooting positions are never acquired in combat. As to a combat crouch, he found himself almost sitting on his butt at times to get low, or behind something.
He is not a big fan of aimed fire, nor is he a precision shooter.
His shooting is instinctive shooting [like Point Shooting].
What you do, is point your finger at the target with your finger along the slide of the pistol.
When the top of the gun is at eye level, and the eye, front sight or muzzle, and the target are in line, you will hit what you are aiming at.
He is a big fan of 6 inch paper plates. If he can hit them with regularity, he is certain that he can probably do that at combat distances.
He also likes express sights.
In his second shooting, he and his partner were confronted by three perps. They both shot at and hit the closest of the three in the head. The other two perps took off, and were captured later.
The maximum gunfight shooting distance was maybe 20 to 25 feet. Most were under 12 feet.
Only two gunfights occurred at distance [30 - 40 feet]. In those cases suppressive fire, not aimed fire was used.
He also has had to reload only 3 times. In those situations, suppressive fire was used.
In the 14 shootings, only two or three times was a two handed grip used.
He shoots about 300 rounds per month.
He says that gunfight experience gives you knowledge of what can happen, but they are never easy. When he shoots, he shoots to live.
It is not easy to fire a gun at another human being. But just like a soldier in combat, first of all, it's your duty, to do that - if those in charge did not want you to do it, they wouldn't have issued you a gun in the first place, or had you carry it.
He has shot 9 people. Five of them died.
Most perps are bad sorts, who if not stopped, would probably hurt/kill others.
Only one gunfight was a one shot stop event. The distance in that situation was about 4 - 5 inches.
His experiences are in line with the findings of the NYPD's SOP 9 study of thousands of police combat cases. Here is a link to a digest of the study and its results.
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